Another Michael Yon dispatch is up - it illustrates two things to me. First, is the wide moral divide between the bad guys and the good guys. Second, is the tough stuff many Iraqis are made of.
If I might insert a personal opinion, I think Petraeus’ plan has a serious chance of working despite heavy odds. In fact, within my first three days with 1-4, talking with Iraqi families and police, there were strong indicators that for this little neighborhood, local people and Iraqi police are definitely encouraged.
Some key quotes, besides what I posted under the "No-Win" thread.
Quote:
What distinguished our ancestors from modern-day Americans was how the former viewed the federal government. Today, Americans look on the federal government as a close friend or even as a parent, sometimes even a god, given that it provides the people with retirement, health care, education, housing, food, money, and other “benefits.” Our forefathers, on the other hand, viewed the federal government as the greatest threat to their rights and freedoms. They believed that government, being force, was neither their friend nor their parent nor their god.
Quote:
That raises the important question of why people around the world, especially in the Middle East, are angry and hateful toward our nation. The issue is important because getting the prescription right usually depends on arriving at a correct diagnosis of the malady.....
Let’s consider two examples – Iran and Iraq.
When Iranians took U.S. embassy officials hostage during the 1979 Iranian Revolution, I think that it would be safe to say that most Americans had no idea why the Iranian revolutionaries were so angry at the United States. No doubt Americans assumed that the revolutionaries simply hated America for its freedom and values.
But Iranians knew that in 1953 the CIA had surreptitiously entered Iran and fomented a coup that resulted in the ouster of Iran’s democratically elected prime minister, a man named Mohammed Mossadegh. Not surprisingly, Mossadegh was highly respected by the Iranian people, and he also was selected as Time magazine’s Man of the Year.
Ousting Mossadegh from power, the CIA replaced him with the shah of Iran, who, with his savage secret police force, proceeded to oppress, brutalize, and torture the Iranian populace for the next 25 years.
It was no different with respect to the Iraqi people. While President Bush today bases his invasion of Iraq on the notion that Saddam Hussein was a dangerous dictator who was trying to secure weapons of mass destruction, he fails to mention that U.S. officials, including President George H.W. Bush, had been strong supporters of this dictator throughout the 1980s. In fact, the current President Bush also fails to mention that it was the United States and other Western countries that furnished Saddam with biological and chemical weapons along with nuclear technology.
Then, when Saddam became the new official enemy of the United States after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the U.S. government, in combination with the UN, proceeded to implement what is arguably the most brutal set of sanctions in world history. Over the course of more than a decade, the sanctions contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. Ramzi Yousef, one of the 1993 terrorists who attacked the World Trade Center, angrily cited the sanctions as one of the reasons for that attack. Later, two high UN officials resigned in protest against what they termed U.S.-government–caused genocide. The most authoritative studies have concluded that approximately 300,000 children lost their lives from infection and illness attributed to the sanctions. But when U.S. Ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright was asked by 60 Minutes whether the deaths of the Iraqi children had been “worth it,” she answered that, yes, the deaths had been “worth it.”
Then there were the illegal “no-fly zones” over Iraq, which had been authorized by neither the U.S. Congress nor the UN. The missiles fired by U.S. warplanes in the enforcement of the “no-fly” policy killed an untold number of additional Iraqis.
Finally, there has been the brutal invasion and occupation of Iraq, a country that never attacked the United States or even threatened to do so, which has resulted in the deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands of more Iraqis (a recent study by researchers at Johns Hopkins University put the number at more than 650,000), not to mention the conversion of Iraq into a hellhole and wasteland of violence and destruction.
It is almost incredible that, although U.S. intelligence agencies have recently concluded that the invasion of Iraq has increased the threat of terrorism against the United States, there are still U.S. officials who maintain that all the bad things that the U.S. government did in the Middle East had nothing to do with the anger and hatred that led to the 9/11 attacks. It’s all because they hate America’s “freedom and values,” not because the U.S. government has killed, tortured, abused, and humiliated people in the Middle East for years.
_________________ I ask that You return me...the years I did ignore Thee.
And with my burdens bury...the weight of guilt I carry.
And lead me to the well of life...before my soul departs.
Then why were the Iraqis cheering and hitting the statue of Saddam Hussein after the fall of Bahgdad?
Also never reported is all the Humanitarian aid that has been given, hospitals and schools that have been built.
Humanitarian aid
KAMALIYA, Iraq - Iraqi women line up to receive humanitarian assistance boxes from U.S. Army Soldiers Friday April 28, 2006. Soldiers from 101st Airborne Division's Company D, 3rd Battalion, 67th Armored Regiment, 4th Brigade, gave donated supplies to the villagers.
But Iranians knew that in 1953 the CIA had surreptitiously entered Iran and fomented a coup that resulted in the ouster of Iran’s democratically elected prime minister...
...
...he fails to mention that U.S. officials, including President George H.W. Bush, had been strong supporters of this dictator throughout the 1980s.
My two cents:
There's something that everyone should realize, but few people do. Countries have had their fingers in each others pies for hundreds, no, thousands of years. There's always a coup to support, or a shifting alliance, or various pressures being applied or deals getting cut. Every country on the face of the planet is trying to do two things: maintain/protect what it has, and gain control or influence over what the other guys have. 1953 only matters as much as it helps or hinders you in your attempt to protect your assets and project your influence today.
The kingmen tried to overthrow the judges. The gadianton robbers brought an entire government under their shadowy control. The righteous nephites made everyone swear an oath to liberty, and put to death anyone who wouldn't. The descendants of Laban and Lemuel basically absorbed the descendents of most everyone else, and robbed them of their own cultural identities. King Limhi figures his people would be better off as Nephite slaves, then paying tribute to Lamanites, so he embarks on a public-relations campaign to gain the support of his people.
Benjamin Franklin spent a lot of time in France building alliances and gaining support to drygulch the British and help the rebel colonies prop themselves up. A few years later, the political climate shifted, and we warmed up to the English and dumped the French like a hot potato.
Whenever someone tries to make a case about how we're good or bad today, based on something that happened in 1953 - well, I just have to giggle. You can pretty much rest assured that you're dealing with someone who doesn't get how geopolitics work. Or, to use Seldom's analogy, we've had chickens going to work in the morning and coming home for a long, long time.
It's a game, people. The fact that we fought two world wars against Germany doesn't mean they haven't been a strong NATO ally for the past 40 years. The fact that Germany has been our ally during the cold war doesn't mean they're our friends today. The fact that we supported local tribes in Afghanistan in their struggle for liberation against the Soviets in the '70's and '80's, doesn't mean we shouldn't have gone after OBL after he attacked us.
Now, if you want to stand up and say "but wait a minute, that's not the way it should be!", go for it. Make your case about why your way is better. Just keep in mind, for every failed coup, there's a favorable trade relationship somewhere else. For every ally-turned-enemy, there's an enemy-turned-ally. For every "here's why they hate us", there's a "here's why they like us" somewhere else. If you want to point to instances of bad foreign policy as evidence that we shouldn't have one, you need to talk about all the successes too. And from what I can tell, since everyone has the light of christ in them to tell right from wrong, the deals that get made are much more often the right ones than the wrong.
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:58 am Post subject:
Quote:
Whenever someone tries to make a case about how we're good or bad today, based on something that happened in 1953 - well, I just have to giggle.
Perhaps it goes way beyond us. This is probably the single biggest cause of war. It is not right. Who cares if it has been going on since the beginning of time? Prostitution has been going on since the beginning of time, but that doesn't make it a necessary part of our political structure.
Kellen Nebelski _________________ I ask that You return me...the years I did ignore Thee.
And with my burdens bury...the weight of guilt I carry.
And lead me to the well of life...before my soul departs.
I don't know that politics as we know it could exist without us remembering our history. How are we to make any political decisions without knowing the history involved in them? Bush was able to use history to get the American public's favor for invading Iraq. I know not everyone agreed, but he used history effectively to get what he needed. He was able to make a case of how easily we defeated Saddam before, so why not now? We were still upset about 9/11, and were still waiting to make someone pay, so he used recent history to make his case. Whether right or wrong, history makes our political decisions of today, from the smallest bill, to a declaration of war. _________________ "Political Correctness means always having to say your sorry."
I suppose this board is dead (for now at least), but if it ever comes back to life, I just wanted to close this thread with a hale and hearty "We WON!"
We won the war in Iraq. Here's a blog from Michael Yon:
Quote:
The Art
of the
End of War
Published: 01 December 2008
Zabul Province, Afghanistan
(Travel from Iraq to Afghanistan, and needless bureaucratic delays, nearly killed this dispatch. Though many photos were made during the recent journey in Iraq, none are included here. Bureaucracy unrelated to our combat forces continues to steal frontline photos and words from your screen. We seem to have two Armies: One Army of true soldiers moving mountains to win wars, while the other Army does everything possible to break the machine while playing soldier. Though I am with excellent U.S. forces in the hinterlands of Afghanistan, this dispatch describes my final “mission” with outstanding soldiers in Iraq.)
Baghdad, Iraq
On the morning of 14 November, soldiers from 2-4 Alpha of the 10th Mountain Division set off on a mission in south Baghdad, and I tagged along. About half the soldiers are combat veterans from Afghanistan and/or Iraq. For instance, SSG Zacchary Foust, the 1st Squad Leader of 3rd Platoon, said he had done two combat tours in Afghanistan, and this was his second go in Iraq, making this his fourth combat deployment. Working with multi-tour veterans makes my job much easier, especially when they have worked in more than one war. The words and expectations from the veterans are more measured and matured, even when the soldiers might be young. Combat veterans also tend to be much more relaxed with correspondents. Most of them seem to view correspondents as if we are zoo animals, since most soldiers, even if they have done multiple tours and seen lots of al Qaeda and Taliban up close, have never seen a correspondent up close. I almost expect them to ask, “What do you eat? Do you live in trees or on the ground?” The one constant with service members over here is politeness and professionalism. Combat soldiers are among the most courteous people I have ever met.
SSG Foust explained that after the initial invasion of Iraq in 2003, his group spent long periods patrolling in the Sinjar mountains in Nineveh where many Yezidis live. He said there was no fighting with Yezidis and that the Yezidis were so friendly that they continuously invited the soldiers to eat with them in the villages. Foust said that though the soldiers brought along Army food, they didn’t really need it because the Yezidis kept them stuffed, and the Yezidi food was much better than army food. Foust said the Yezidis offered the best tobacco he’s ever tasted, because they grow their own. It wasn’t until later that Foust learned the Yezidis are supposed to be “devil worshippers,” which seemed a bit perplexing because they seemed like normal people to him.
I said to SSG Foust what I tell our pilots who fly near Yezidis: If your aircraft goes down near Yezidis, you might be sipping tea with your laundry being folded before search and rescue can get to you. And they’ll cook lunch for the rescue team. This is why a lot of Americans who know Yezidis are angered when al Qaeda attacks Yezidi people. Many personal bonds have been formed during this tragic war. We are no longer enemies with the Iraqis, and there is no good reason why Iraq and America should ever fight again.
And so we rolled out of FOB Falcon in those giant MRAPs. It seems that most of the seriously experienced combat soldiers do not like MRAPs. Yes, MRAPs are great for the main roads and convoys, but they are too big and too cumbersome, and they get stuck in mud that you could peddle a bicycle through. MRAPs are not offensive vehicles. There is no doubt MRAPs can save lives – they’re like giant vaults on wheels, though I did see the wreckage of one in Afghanistan that had been nearly obliterated. When we’re on the main roads, I love MRAPs, but we will never win wars or major battles with those things, or by staying on main roads. MRAPs need good roads. Good roads are bomb magnets. In Afghanistan, many of the Taliban scoot around on motorcycles, and there is no doubt that mobility is a weapon. We should melt most of the MRAPs down and forge that metal into killing machines like Strykers. The combat vets from 10th Mountain that day were also not fans of MRAPs. And though it’s easy to find MRAP-lovers, the hardcore fighters seem to want more mobility than steel.
We rumbled into various neighborhoods in south Baghdad. Nothing was going on. No gun battles. No mushroom clouds from car bombs or IEDs. I wore the headset and the incessant radio alerts about units fighting here or there were completely absent. In the old days, while the Iraq war was hot, there was constant chatter about fighting, car bombs, snipers, name it. Today, there were no alerts at all. There was more chatter about the Kenyan sitting in front of me who had been in the Army for a couple years. The other soldiers said he should get automatic citizenship for volunteering to fight, and we all agreed. The soldier came straight from Kenya into our Army. Did not even pass GO, and suddenly was in Iraq.
On another day, I had lunch with a soldier from Ghana. He told me that Ghana has the same constitution as the United States, and that he was proud to join the American Army. He had become an American, to which I said, “Welcome aboard.” He had one of those Ghana accents and was black as coal. By the time he finished telling me about his homeland, I was sold on wanting to travel there someday.
“Are Americans welcome?” I asked.
“Sure!” He seemed to think the question was humorous for its simplicity about Ghana. He said that American soldiers in Ghana are treated like kings, and if anyone gives a hassle, a U.S. soldier has only to show his military ID, and the clouds all disappear. The soldier from Ghana told me that when he goes home on leave, the police actually salute him because he joined the American army. I was incredulous, and asked for reassurance, “Really?! They salute you?”
“Yes,” he said, with that funny Ghana accent. “They Salute American soldiers in Ghana! They love America and many Americans retire there.”
Sounded like Kurdish Iraq, where the kids ask soldiers for autographs, and even ask interpreters for autographs if they work for American soldiers.
The Baghdad mission with 10th Mountain Division soldiers was uneventful, other than the soldiers being proud to say they haven’t had to fire a single shot in combat this year. One soldier wanted to buy a roasted chicken, but the chicken stand no longer takes dollars, only Iraqi dinars. Several stores we stopped at now only take dinar, though I bought a sim chip for my cell phone with dollars. Later in the day, a soldier with a pocket full of dinar bought kebabs for the squad and we devoured the whole lot.
The SOI, or Sons of Iraq, which many people used to derisively call “America’s Militias,” were out there and their behavior was polite. The SOI were even getting along with the National Police (NP) who were with us; just a year ago the SOI and NP used to kill each other. In another encouraging sign, the Iraqi government has started paying the SOI, and their pay is nearly as much as that of Iraqi soldiers. For SOI who want jobs that do not include carrying a gun, there are job training programs that I wanted to cover, but there was no time.
I normally don’t ask British or American soldiers about politics, but I had been asking many American soldiers what they think of Obama vs. McCain, and I came away with no fixed answer. Many wanted McCain, while it seems just as many wanted Obama, though none of the soldiers seem so emotional about it like the folks at home, or in other countries. But across the board, as expected, whether soldiers like Obama or not, nobody wanted to see Iraq get neglected, and I was with them on that. The biggest endorsement for Obama came from al Qaeda’s Vice President, the bitter hate-man and racist Dr. Ayman Muhammad Rabaie al-Zawahiri, when he declared war on Obama. Al Qaeda obviously is afraid of Obama, just like they are afraid of Bush who has been chasing al Qaeda like rats since 9/11. I’ve never enjoyed a day in the Iraq war, or in Afghanistan, but there have been many days of quiet satisfaction when al Qaeda or Taliban were brought to final justice before my eyes. It would be something to see Zawahiri or Bin Laden, captured like rats, shaved of hair and beards, put before the world to face the families of the thousands of Americans, Iraqis, Afghans, and so many others in Pakistan, Africa, and Europe, that they have murdered. Nobody suffers more at the hands of al Qaeda than Muslims.
Al Qaeda was handed a vicious defeat in Iraq, and it can be said with great certainty that most Iraqis hate al Qaeda even more than Americans do. Al Qaeda can continue to murder Iraqis for now, but al Qaeda will be hard pressed to ever plant their flag in another Iraqi city. The Iraqi army and police have become far too strong and organized, and the Iraqis will eventually strangle al Qaeda to death.
I still find people in America, Nepal, Thailand, UAE and other countries who believe al Qaeda propaganda that they attack us because we support Israel or occupy Muslim holy land. This would not explain the decapitated Iraqi children I photographed when locals told me al Qaeda did it. This would not explain the Iraqi children al Qaeda has blown up, or the Afghans and Pakistanis killed by al Qaeda, or the Africans who are murdered by the same cult of serial killers. Did those decapitated children in the Iraqi village even know where America or Israel are? What about the Shia mosques they destroyed in Iraq? Were they occupying Saudi Arabia or supporting Israel?
The streets that I was this day patrolling with Iraqi National Police and soldiers from 10th Mountain Division, were once controlled by al Qaeda. Al Qaeda had intentionally stoked the fires of civil war in Iraq.
What’s next? If you are in this same neighborhood next week (now last week), please go to the art Iraqi Art show that people were talking about.
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